Hades are applauded so the warriors does not worry death; children is always to develop dreading thraldom more dying (386c). The brand new champion Achilles need to be absent from most of the tales, because youngsters never discover lamenting or terrible displays of immoderate feeling glorified having fear they are going to follow the latest practices as their individual (388). While doing so, stories dont are displays regarding wit (389a). Particularly way too much screens out of sadness, continuously screens of delight threaten the brand new stoic thinking that is prominent from inside the guardians. Suitable reports need to glorify and encourage moderation; they want to display obedience so you’re able to superiors and temperance inside taking, dining, sex (389e), and you will passion for currency and you can property (390e). Reports also needs to reveal courage facing danger (390d. Most established stories, Socrates states, upload poor messages and may getting banned. They reveal unjust guys as the happy, merely people once the disappointed, injustice since profitable, and you will fairness as being somebody else’s a great and you can an individual’s very own losses. Remarkably, this type of bad texts are exactly the same because Glaucon’s and you will Adeimantus’ objections against the flexibility away from justice. Instead of getting told present reports like those of the Homer and you can Hesiod, youngsters have to be informed speeches throughout the actual justice, any kind of it can be (392c). Surprisingly, even in the event Socrates includes around three of the four chief virtues (courage, moderation, and you can justice) among the important sessions away from appropriate reports, information is absent. The newest omission out of understanding, plus the implication that guardians is take on blindly whichever he’s advised and end up being wholly shaped because of the tales, suggest once more one guardians aren’t intended to be smart and you can philosophical.
Just after dealing with the right posts off reports, Socrates discusses if easy or imitative story will likely be employed by poets and you can guardians. He decides one to mimetic poetry are unsafe because prompts anybody so you can simulate bad as well as a decisions and you will supporting the fresh pass of your own one man-you to job idea (395c). However, if poets and you will guardians are to imitate (which they doubtlessly have a tendency to given that Socrates’ whole conversation of one’s benefits of good stories relies on the theory you to children tend to replicate examples), they want to duplicate the individuals virtues which they was taught as youth (courage, moderation, holiness, freedom) (395c). Socrates states, “Imitations, when they experienced continuously out-of childhood forward, be based once the patterns and you can characteristics, for the muscles and you can sounds plus imagine” (395d). Thus, the correct type of narrative for both guardians and you can poets are primarily low-imitative, however, makes it possible for certain simulation of good guys (396d). Socrates upcoming claims that the taste to have non-imitative poets excludes one particular appreciated and you may humorous poets throughout the city (397e-398a), in favor of significantly more austere much less-pleasing poets.
While Glaucon is actually unwilling to surrender the newest “relishes” he enjoys (372c), Adeimantus, Socrates’ mate for it the main discussion, willingly brings right up his favourite poets and you will believes you to xcheaters poets need certainly to getting reduced pleasing
Finally inside the discussion out of educative songs, Socrates addresses the correct track out of stories which have Glaucon. Just as the content and style away from speeches, Socrates allows just average and you will austere melodies. Melodies imitating the musical and you will accents of males daring on the deal with out-of hazard and those suitable in order to quiet guys are allowed, but settings suiting laments otherwise revelries are taboo (399b). Just simple instruments including the lyre, cither, and you will pipe are allowed (399d). First off, Socrates claims you to definitely flow must go after message, perhaps not the other way around. All part of message must follow the mood of a good soul; “An excellent message, a harmony, good elegance, and you may good rhythm supplement a beneficial vibe” (400e).
Socrates shows him that with the best studies, a longevity of good virtue, also “moderation, courage, liberality, and magnificence” (402c) however, excluding sex and too much fulfillment, would-be fulfilling
Socrates says that careful crafting off reports is very important because they are the best method of teaching guardians’ souls. Beat and you can balance touch the brand new heart really, so if youngsters are in the middle of stories regarding god rather than confronted with crappy reports, including “good pets” they are going to learn how to love what they learn (god and you will justice) and you may dislike what they do maybe not understand (injustice) (401d-e). Understanding how to like great one thing and you can dislike unappealing one thing while the a good kid can assist him or her enjoy sensible address and get fulfillment inside the way of life meagerly when person (402a). By saying the highest virtues is gotten owing to studies and you will try a point of discreet taste, Socrates fights Glaucon’s fascination with base delights. To put it differently, because of studying real advantage, Glaucon find a pleasure comparable (although not the same) to this of eros which he so craves.